Two black pastors from Milwaukee were on their way home from a fishing trip in May when their boat trailer got a flat tire. They pulled over to the side of a highway in the suburbs and called for a tow truck.
As they waited, a deputy from the Waukesha County Sheriff鈥檚 Department pulled up behind them. At first they were relieved. But then, after offering up their insurance papers, the deputy asked if they had any guns or drugs.
鈥淲e were like, 鈥楴o,鈥� 鈥� the Rev. says. 鈥淚 said, 鈥榃e are pastors. We would not have anything like that.鈥� 鈥�
Here & Now鈥榮 Robin Young speaks with Williams and the Rev. John Patterson about the incident, which the community group Common Ground is .
The sheriff鈥檚 department says it has received and 鈥渉onored鈥� Common Ground鈥檚 request to review the last 45 days of reports submitted by the deputy involved.
Interview Highlights
On their reaction when the sheriff arrived
Demetrius Williams: 鈥淲e felt happy that the sheriff had arrived, because when we pulled over 鈥� trucks and cars were zooming past, so we assumed that he would put out orange cones to divert traffic until help arrived. But when he walked to the vehicle, he initially made a statement: 鈥楢re you the ones who called for a squad?鈥� We said, 鈥楴o, but we鈥檙e glad you鈥檙e here, we just called Progressive and they鈥檙e on the way to fix the flat.鈥� Pastor Patterson then asked, 鈥榃ell I have my insurance papers, would you like to see them?鈥� He said, 鈥楴o, if you said you have insurance or someone is on the way, that鈥檚 fine. Do you have any guns or weapons or drugs in the car?鈥�
鈥淲e were like, 鈥楴o.鈥� I said, 鈥榃e are pastors. We would not have anything like that.鈥� And as if he didn鈥檛 hear anything that we said, he proceeded from the driver鈥檚 side to the passenger side where I was sitting, and he said, 鈥業 need to see your license.鈥� And so Pastor Patterson said, 鈥榃ell, here you go.鈥� He said, 鈥楴o, I need yours, too.鈥� And I said, 鈥榃ell why do you need my license?鈥� And he said, 鈥業t鈥檚 our policy.鈥� And I gave my license under protest, and I let him know that.鈥�
On how it felt to watch this unfold
John Patterson: 鈥淚t just made me feel violated. It鈥檚 happened before, but not to this extent, it hadn鈥檛 happened to this extent, where it was just so blatant.鈥�
On if the deputy ever asked what the problem was or what he could do to help
DW: 鈥淭hat鈥檚 what鈥檚 so frustrating about the episode. 鈥� Those who have been hired and have been sworn in to protect and serve, did not at any time offer a service. I don鈥檛 think he used proper judgment. We were not a threat to anyone. We鈥檙e middle-aged men with a fishing boat. Why would that kind of encounter be necessary, when there was nothing to indicate that it鈥檚 [a situation where] some approach like that would be required in interacting with citizens?鈥�
On how they have been grappling with this experience
DW: 鈥淭hese kinds of stories are not uncommon in African-American communities 鈥� whether you鈥檙e a lawyer, a doctor, a pastor. These kind of unfortunate encounters with law enforcement happen all the time, so I tried to use it as a lesson and a guide for my young people, to maintain their composure. You find other ways to ameliorate the problem. But challenging an officer in that moment puts power in their hands for them to exercise force, sometimes even deadly force.
JP: 鈥淚 think that every citizen should be treated with dignity. It matters not who you are, what color you are, whatever. It just seemed to me, in many cases, it鈥檚 not the case. This kind of incident really kind of 鈥� it hurt a great deal for me to have to go through that. I could only imagine if it had been somebody else that didn鈥檛 have the dignity nor the type of love that we have toward people, period. If we didn鈥檛 have that, and we went off, we could have been statistics.鈥�
On black people having the police called on them while doing everyday things
鈥淲hat happened , or in Ohio 鈥� a 12-year-old boy , has his own business, he happens to be in a white neighborhood and a woman calls the police 鈥� those are microaggressions. They don鈥檛 always end in some kind of violence, but yet they are deeply affecting to the individual.
鈥淚鈥檓 reminded of a quote by Frederick Douglass. He says, 鈥楩ind out just what any people will quietly submit to, and you have the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them.鈥� These microaggressions are just those types of things, where if you quietly submit, they will contain you and they will exacerbate, get worse.鈥�
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